40K RULES: From the base or from the gun?
Hey all, Jawaballs here!
In light of the fact that not all of us are 40k masters, I thought I would share some sticky rules discussions from my latest tournament. How to measure from various weapons. Lets get to it:
I ended up with a minor victory, a draw and a major victory but did not place for those who may be interested. I figured I would throw caution to the wind since the new dex is upon us and this was probably my last tournament with the PDF. I played Dante and Mephiston and a lascannon pred. 🙂 Batreps and the list I used will be on my blog later this week. This was the first time I ever used a Psyker in a tournament, and Mephiston never managed to get a power off in all three games. Stupid psykers.
So on to the matter at hand! Most of us know the rules well. Some of us need help. This article may help us all. Lets get some expert opinions!
First up:
For every model type, where do you measure from when shooting? The base or the gun.
We can agree that infantry are measured from the base right? Even when shooting a model with a huge lascannon extending an inch and a half off the base, you still measure that shot from the base, not the end of the gun. I think we can also agree that when shooting a vehicle, we measure shooting distance from the end of the gun that is shooting, not from the hull of the tank. What about LoS for these two types of models? From infantry you look from the head of the model. From tanks you look down the barrel of the gun that is shooting. Right so far?
Well things get a little less sure sometimes. What about attack bikes? In a game this weekend I was up against Greg Sabino, a great guy and player. We always have fun when we meet each other in tournaments. The issue came up that my multi melta bike was short on the 12″ melta range by about half an inch if shooting from the barrel of the gun, but when measuring from the front of the bike, just made it. The front of the bike extends beyond the multi melta by half an inch. Attack Bikes are not on bases. But they are not vehicles! So when measuring shooting range, where do you measure from? We reasoned it out that attack bikes are like infantry. You would shoot from the base, in this case the bike is the base. The direction that the bike is pointing has no effect on which way it can shoot, and you need not rotate the model. So an attack bike pointing north, can shoot south, just like a bolter marine. That being the case, you would not shoot from the barrel of the melta gun, but in fact, from the back of the seat… or whichever part of the bike is closest to the model you are trying to hit.
What ya think about that?
Moving on.
Dreadnoughts! Dreadnoughts are vehicles, but they are on bases. Dreadnoughts have torsos that pivot around. In close combat, they spin all about, making it impossible to hit it in the back. The question is, can an immobilized dreadnought turn and fire? And when shooting a dreadnoughts weapons, do you measure from the base or from the gun? When I shoot a dread, I measure the distance from the gun. When I situate my dread before shooting, I place him so that his flamer will get the best possible angle from the flamer arm. But as you can imagine, this can lead to some pretty good abusive modeling techniques. By modeling a right close combat arm on a furioso dread extended all the way out, you can extend your melta range by a couple inches! The way to solve that would be to measure distance from the base. Experts? Any one have a page number that resolves any of this?
How about monstrous creatures assaulting? A couple of issues came up this weekend. One was the question of whether or not a MC could split it’s attacks up between multiple models, units, squads. The other issue was could a MC charge multiple units? The situation was that a Tyranid Trygon tried to assault my Baal Predator, and the attack bike that was on a raised incline about 3 inches away. By positioning the large base, he could definitely make contact with both on the charge. Was he allowed? He wanted to charge both, and split his attacks between the tank and the bike.
At first, I was under the impression that the only models that could split attacks were Independent Characters. Any other single model had to declare the model or squad they were attacking, and all attacks had to go against that target. Happily, I was wrong! After looking in the book, we figured out that indeed a single model could split it’s attacks. It was in the little diagram at the bottom of the page that shows some marines vs some orks. Sorry for the lack of the page number. I was happy to see that for when I use my Furioso dreads, they can now split their attacks against ICs and squads. I was not doing so before.
But the big question was, could the Trygon assault both models. He rolled his difficult terrain, and by moving in a straight line was able to contact both. So yes, he should be able to get B2B with both right? Not so fast big bug! The rules for assaulting say that you declare your charge target. Then you need to move the first model in the unit (in this case the only model) into base to base with the target, using the shortest distance possible. That is the deal breaker for the multiple assaulting monstrous creature. To get the bike, he had to take an angled charge at the tank, which was not the shortest distance. While it was possible for him to reach the bike, since he had to take the shortest distance to the tank, he was unable to get the bike as well.
Now, here is the issue. The trygon base is shaped like an oval. It is a big departure from the round 40k bases and can lead to interesting rules quirks. By moving the base the shortest distance to the target using the pointy tip of the oval base, he was able to then rotate the base towards the bike, and almost got it. There are no rules saying you can’t rotate a model that has charged. And if you can do so, and make contact with another unit by doing so, can you now assault them both?
So, can a single model charge multiple units? If you can angle the model so that moving the shortest distance possible to the target will also leave you B2B with another unit, then it is possible… is it?
What about monstrous creature shooting? They are not vehicles like Dreadnoughts. And some of their guns certainly can extend many inches off their base. Where do you measure their shooting from? Wraithlords? Carnifexs? Is LoS determined from their head or from their gun mount?
I guess that is enough for discussion for now. My friends, feel free to share your knowledge and experience on these, but remember, that while some of these questions may be obvious to you, there are plenty of BoLS readers that might just be wondering the same things!
More to come…
Jawaballs
