40K: Bonus Attacks Rules Conundrum
Get ready rules experts – we got a curve ball for you: How many bonus attacks do you get with Scything Talons?
So my play ground and I came across an interesting question during a game: How many bonus attacks do creatures equipped with multiple scything talons get? Now, before we get into that let’s take a look at all the relevant rules and an example:
Fight Phase – 4. Choose Melee Weapon:
“If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.”
Here we have the Trygon Prime with it’s relative rules showing. We see that the Trygon Prime is equipped with the following:
- Bio-electric Pule with Containment Spines (ranged ‘weapon’ – not relevant to this example)
- a biostatic rattle (melee weapon – but not relevant here)
- Three pairs of Massive scything talons
Here is where the issue starts. The Scything Talon rule say this:
(Massive/Monstrous/Regular) Scything Talons:
“You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 when attacking with this weapon. If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.”
We all know that the old bonus of +1 attack for having more than one melee/close-combat weapon is gone. No one is arguing that.
We all know that the Trygon will get at minimum +1 attack for using it’s scything talons. That’s not the issue.
The issue is this:
What if the player splits their attacks using each weapon, and each weapon has that special rule, does that mean they get +3 attacks?
“But the weapon profile is only listed once! It’s one blob of weapons!”
Wait a minute – that’s not how that works either. Think about shooting weapons: If you have predator with two “heavy bolters” just because your datasheet only lists “heavy bolters” once doesn’t mean you only get to shoot one heavy bolter. The model comes with two and you get to fire two. Why are melee weapons treated different?
Maybe it would help to write it’s wargear like this:
- Bio-electric Pule with Containment Spines (ranged ‘weapon’ – not relevant to this example)
- a biostatic rattle (melee weapon – but not relevant here)
- First pair of Massive scything talons
- Second pair of Massive scything talons
- Third pair of Massive scything talons
If the player chooses to split attacks among it’s weapons (which they are allowed to do) does each pair qualify for the attack?
The order goes like this:
- Player chooses First Pair
- Does it meet the requirement of “If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.” – Yes
- +1 Attack
- Does it meet the requirement of “If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.” – Yes
- Player chooses Second Pair
- Does it meet the requirement of “If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.” – Yes
- +1 Attack
- Does it meet the requirement of “If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.” – Yes
- Player chooses Third Pair
- Does it meet the requirement of “If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.” – Yes
- +1 Attack
- Does it meet the requirement of “If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.” – Yes
Note that if that’s the case, you only get the bonus once per pair.
As I have been playing my Tyranids, every game I’ve played I’ve ruled this as +1 attack. Period. Now I’m starting to wonder if I was doing that wrong…
For now, I’m going to error on the side of less controversial judgement and just stick with the +1 attack and not +3. Heck, I’ve even seen folks make the case that you should get +6 attacks – I don’t agree but I also get where they are coming from. I understand both sides of this one and honestly I just don’t want to start a debate every time I play. However, when I’m not playing I do want to bring it up and talk about it.
I have really been enjoying 8th and the rules changes. The amount of ambiguity in the game has dropped dramatically. But there are still some rough spots and I’m sure GW is aware of it. Hopefully when we get new codexes those things will get hammered out. For now, I encourage you to bring up these types of things with your gaming group and make a decision outside of a game, before dice start rolling and feelings get hurt.
So – How many bonus attacks would the Trygon Prime get? Let us know what you think in the comments below!
